05 → Marcus Kelly @Marcuskreates
Marcus Kelly (He/Him) is a part-time freelance jack of all trades from Melbourne, Australia. His poster work is fascinating for it’s use of photography, model-making, and more that most generally forgo. Our interview is available in it’s original audio format, and via the text transcript below.
RTG: So I guess personally, how has your sort of graphic design journey kind of looked for you? Did you study or what was the situation? Marcus Kelly: No, I didn't study. I studied to become a youth worker, so it's basically.. It's like a social worker, but I work with people aged 10 to 25. So I run programmes, I provide individual support and I do a lot of stuff in the arts, so I provide art opportunities for young people to connect with other people around art and also to explore their creativity and you know really supported environment yeah where. My queer programmes, I work on school workshops, live music, you name it. I'll probably do it, social media. So I went to uni and I studied a Bachelor of Youth Work, biographic designs. Just came out as a passion. It was basically just something that I wanted to learn and started to develop an interest in typography and graphic design. There's something I've always loved, so I kind of just poured that into one discipline and that became the movie poster design. And then just learning from people online and asking lots of questions. Just like figuring out what my style is and it took a long time and figure out what that was I guess.
Yeah, that's interesting. So all the poster stuff is like a side like a side hustle. I don't want to say side hustle, but it's like on the side?
Yeah, absolutely. So I work basically full time and then on top of that I do the poster design so I don't get much rest.
You do like a full 9 to 5 and then in your free time you do it?
A little, yeah.
Yeah, that's crazy. I mean, there's so much... It seems like a lot of work just doing one of those videos you do.
Yeah, behind the scenes content on top of that, which I wouldn't recommend, it's a lot of work.
I think it's… deceivingly simple almost?
Absolutely, yeah. Whenever I'd see like people doing behind the scenes stuff, I wouldn't. I wouldn't think anything of it. And then when I started making it myself, I was like, oh shit. Like you actually have to film everything going. And if you don't know what you're doing or you don't know where an idea is going, you just have to film anyway and hopefully it works out. So sometimes that works, sometimes I film something and I make something and it's complete trash and I never use it, but this is a whole part of the process.
Yeah. What is it that you only show the good ones? Is there some trash ones?
Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Many posters that I've made. Where I've bought all the pieces and I've put it together like I tried making crampas posted just before Christmas, and I showed it to a friend and she was like, what the fuck is this? I was like, Okay...yeah. Anyway…
Oh, that's interesting. I hadn't considered people who don't do graphic design as their main form of work when I was writing a lot of these questions.
Yeah, this is only a small part of my life, so I just have to learn. I don't have any formal education. I don't have any background in designing as a job. It's just all learned on the spot and yeah. I don't like to call myself a graphic designer. Yeah, per say, using graphic design as a medium, but more as an artist because my interests are quite eclectic. I like to do a lot of different things. This is the one that's taking time at the moment.
I think one of the questions was like let me see… you do so much stuff, right? There's a lot of physicality to the things you do, a lot of modelling and more, I guess analogue sort of stuff than most people that sort of do posters. Where does that come from?
Yeah, for sure. It comes from a love of practical effects. I love effects and movies. I love that tangibility of something that's handmade and I think that was something that I was missing when I first started doing the graphic design or making film posters I was just using imagery that already existed from the films and it didn't feel like I could put my own stamp on it as much as if I made something myself. In the past I've been a filmmaker. I've made my own films, I've made prop replicas from films. I've done photography, collaging, animation. You name it. I've probably done it.
And I just realised I was like, why would I not use some of the things that I picked up along the way? And I think the first one that I used like actual practical elements was my The Thing poster I have here, but I wanted to have this like ripped out hole in the face. I was like, why don't I just print it out and I can just rip a hole in the face? And I was like, well, if I could do it for real, then why wouldn't I? And you get such a unique look out of.
Yeah. I think I definitely do need to try to do that myself in some ways. Like I think it is just more fun. I'm not really great at Photoshop either. I just kind of use it to that capacity where you're like: yeah, I've made it stylized, but is it really my imagery or whatnot? And it's like… I guess? I don't know...
Right? It's so hard to make something that feels uniquely you and also encapsulates what the film is about. And sometimes there's just not the right frame. Sometimes a film isn't visually gorgeous and you don't have high resolution skills to use, and in that it frustrates me because. I was like, I want to make something, but I haven't got a good image from the film. If that's what I'm limited to, then I can't make something, but I wanted it.
Be more broad and you can find your own way of doing that, like people would do illustrations and beautiful drawings, paintings. If I could do that, I would absolutely do that. I love illustrated posters, but it's just not a skill set that I have. I can do very basic illustrations but something where it's like photo real. It's just not my style and it's just not something that I have a skill set for. Photography, collaging, placing objects on top of a printed piece of paper. I can do that, and that's what I've done and all people fuck with it. I like it.
Yeah, I think that is like I guess a lot of people have a lot of skills, but they don't really find a way to blend them in a way that's sort of cohesive. It kind of seems like you've hit a sort of sweet spot with it, I suppose.
Yeah, in one way I have like, if you look at the work that I made when I first started back in 2021 and you look at what I'm making now, the style like there's a, there's a line like there's like a continuity to it, like where there's still elements that I like to keep, but their voice or the style is kind of being refined more or it's more me. That being said, the style that I do have this like physical handmade quality taking photos using objects I find it's also a bit of a box that I'm trapped in because there's only so many things I can do or so many ideas that I can come up with. Without being repetitious and doing the same thing over and over and that's the thing that I keep coming back to and something I'm really struggling with at the moment.
I just… I'm trying to think of different ways to incorporate things, but it's like I've already done something very similar to that, or I just don't want the same thing over and over. So yeah, it's hard coming up with ideas is hard. Finding your voice is hard. None of it is easy, but when it comes naturally, then that's a good time.
What does your sort of idea of contentment look like? Is it monetary, is it like a state of mind, you know? I suppose it was in relation to the context of having to do a lot of client work. That might be kind of…maybe not as creatively fulfilling, but maybe a small problem for you because you don't have that as your main source of income.
Yeah, I mean, I've definitely had really amazing clients that let me have creative freedom. And I've had clients where it's more just fulfilling, whatever their brief is. The ones that like have that trust and say this is like you have free range to do that or I present an idea and they're like that's amazing. Then that's the best feeling ever in terms of admin. I would love to be satisfied with what I make at all times and they would often in and be like yes, I know exactly what I'm doing. That's my idea of contentment, just being comfortable with what I make and being satisfied with it. Monetary value, I mean, there's always going to be more money in the world. Peace of mind is very hard to come by. You can't buy a peace of mind, unfortunately. Contentment would be… a break from my own brain and clients. You can work with clients. Your brain. It's like the worst client of them all.
“Monetary value, I mean, there's always going to be more money in the world. Peace of mind is very hard to come by. You can't buy a peace of mind, unfortunately.”
Now, that's interesting. Do you have a contract? Do you do contracts?
I don't do contracts I should, but I do a quote which basically outlines what I'm delivering and what my fee structure is, what my draft structure is like revisions and once they pay the 50% deposit then we go from there. But luckily there hasn't been an instance where I've needed a contract or there's been a major dispute. A lot of the clients I've worked with have been pretty easy to work with.
Yeah. So you always do 50% before doing any work?
Absolutely.
I was thinking about contracts and deposits and just starting out without like a portfolio of client work like what, what do you say to someone in that kind of position because like for me if I'm like, oh, I'll do it, but I want 50% upfront and they'll be like... well you've got nothing to show for it!
Absolutely. I mean the first ever worked with the first client I ever worked with. I charged $100 and there was no deposit. I mean a $50 deposit that would be yours anyway. And then I did way too much work like I made like 5 or 6 like different posts before I even looked at one of them I was like, what about this? What about that? What about this? So in terms of deposits, I mean, once you're starting out, I mean I feel like you need to get a portfolio before you can start expecting people to trust what you're making. If you have nothing to show that you can actually deliver and how are people supposed to trust what you're delivering? If you've got heaps of alternative posters but not paid and you're like I can deliver and people like your work then sure, but if you don't have any work at all, then yeah, it's really hard to get that trust in the client. A lot of my clients come from word of mouth, so they're already trusting that I've already delivered to another person, so they know that I will deliver to them. The fees and deposits and everything is just a nightmare. I always feel like I'm not charging enough or I'm not getting enough for the amount of work that I'm putting in, but it's such a fine balance when you're working with independent filmmakers versus bigger productions.
“If you have nothing to show that you can actually deliver and how are people supposed to trust what you're delivering?”
Have you got experience working with bigger productions now or is it mostly short films?
Yes, not major, but a decent size production and. It was a bit of an…yeah.
Yeah...
So the concept I did, like the poster I made, didn't end up getting used and yeah. We had like 5 or 6 meetings before I even started designing. It was ridiculous. I was working with a creative director. It was just not a not a great time. But I just worked on a new feature film and that's called like a production company and stuff, but super smooth. I was just working with the filmmaker, going through creative directors is not my, not my jam. Too many cooks in the kitchen.
I spoke to Aleks Phoenix the other day and he kind of said pretty much the same thing at a point he was working at like an agency on the Marvel posters and stuff and just kind of like all of their comps would get turned away and it’d kind of just be like, oh well, I'm not good enough now because they're turning away all my ideas...
Yeah. No, I used to be friends with Aleks. I haven't spoken to him in a long time, but yeah, I remember him talking about his experience at the LA Agency. Watson, those big agencies where you're just a tiny piece of like a bigger machine. And it sounds nightmarish. Yeah. Like, that's amazing new films, but having to put up constant work and then it just gets shut down and they go with a completely different idea. That's like that would break my heart. My heart is quite fragile and I'll be able to love what I make. Like I don't make shit for people. Yeah, I mean, that's kind of cool, but we're going to do this anyway. I want to work. I actually care about what I make.
Yeah, for sure. So are you happy to stay, what was it you said like as a child worker?
Youth Worker.
Youth worker. Yeah. Are you? Are you looking to stay doing that? Or do you ever have it in the back of your mind or like if I make enough clients, you know. Then I'll move full time to design.
If you hadn't asked me this question last year…the start of last year, I would have given you a very different answer... so last year I had the full intention to slowly bring my hours down as a youth worker and get more clients as a graphic designer. I had a very challenging year last year, so that's part of the reason that it changed, but basically I was not getting enough clients last year to justify bringing those hours down and even doing the maths like if I if I charge the same amount that I do now and I worked with two, three times the amount of clients that I did last year, it still wouldn't be enough to give up what I'm doing. I'd need to be employed by an agency like what Aleks was, and at the moment I just don't think that that's viable for me, like something that I would be interested in. I'd be keen to keep going with my freelancing and I'm actually going back up to full time work in April, so I'm working four days at the moment going back up to full. But I still want to keep the freelance but just work with clients that actually want to work with me and want my vision? Instead of just, a creative individual that they never get to meet, like before making, never gets to meet. But that's just me. Like I did have dreams of working for agencies, but I think those dreams are put to the wayside for now.
Did you ever have a dream job growing up or? You know, do you believe in that? Is that kind of just some sort of crap?
No, no, it's not crap at all. I do believe in dream jobs. I'm working my dream job at the moment. Like I'm working as a youth worker. Mm-hmm. I I really wanted to be a youth worker when I was in high school. And here I am. I'm doing it at the place that I wanted to do it at and not many people get to do that. I wanted to be a filmmaker when I was younger. Before I wanted to become a youth worker and I'm not working as a filmmaker professionally, but I can still make. Like that's still an option, and that's never off the cards if I wanted to change my mind, and I'm thinking about making another short film this year, so it could come back in that way. I wanted to be a lot of things, but I always want that financial stability and the creative freedom to do what I want… and sometimes when you mix creative and paid work, it can kind of suck the life out of it a little bit.
“I wanted to be a lot of things, but I always want that financial stability and the creative freedom to do what I want… and sometimes when you mix creative and paid work, it can kind of suck the life out of it a little bit.”
Yeah. What am I doing? (as a graphic designer)
Like graphic design, as a job is like a very specific thing and it depends on what kind of lens you have on graphic design and poster design and what kind of field you want to go into.
Yeah, I suppose it's kind of just I've. I've really got no idea. I guess it’s part of why I'm talking to people and you know, trying to inform myself a little bit more before I'm looking for jobs or whatever the case is.
Absolutely. How old are you at the moment?
I'm 21. I'll be 22 this year.
Yeah, good stuff. Awesome. How old do you think I am?
19...?
19.
(chuckling awkwardly) Not older than... 33?
Yeah... Okay.
How old is? How old are you?
I'm 27.
You’re 27? Oh my goodness.
I know, old man over here.
Well, that's awesome. You're alreally working and you like your job. You want to be in it, and under thirty, that seems pretty solid with the current state of the world.
I started working this job when I was 19, which is wild like unheard of for someone in my profession to be working that young. I was younger than and so I was working with it's not allowed. But yeah, this is very bizarre. I mean, I obviously showed back and did the job, but anyway... any other questions? You’ve got 10 minutes!
How similar do you find freelancing to be now that you're doing it as opposed to how you might have thought it would be? I guess eyeing it expectations wise.
Yeah. I mean, when I first started doing it, it was the most exciting thing ever. Like, every client that came through, I was like, oh my God. I was super excited. And I think over time, it's become more of a job than it has. Then it started out to be and it sounds horrible, but like it becomes more jaded like I'm more selective. I'm more cynical, I'm more experienced. I expect more. It's just something that comes with time and also age. Like that's three years of time and you do change overtime and as you get older, you expect different things and time becomes more valuable. So yeah, I mean, I've definitely taken on clients that I should have said no to and I probably would have just said yes at the beginning and now I'd probably maybe be a bit more selective.
“I'm more selective. I'm more cynical, I'm more experienced. I expect more. It's just something that comes with time and also age.”
Yeah, I suppose with freelancing though, there's like a kind of. Almost like I want to say there's like a sort of predatory aspect with the clients, and maybe people at the outset just assume they don't have to take you as seriously because you're not, you know, an agency or ‘a business’.
Absolutely.
If that makes sense.
No, for sure. I've definitely learned how to put in place clearer boundaries, more efficiently for them and for me, and to also be compensated more as well, like standing behind what I do like. I know how much time and effort that what I make can bring something unique that someone else can't and I should be compensated for that. And at the beginning I wasn't doing that.
How do you account for burnout and whatnot? If you have a deadline like, what do you do? What can be done?
I burn out all the time like I am always burning out, but that's because I've got ADHD and autism.
Yeah... same. (In regards to ADHD that is!)
They're always fighting with each other in my brain, so I burn out quite regularly. ADHD burnout is real. But in terms of like if I have a deadline, I actually find it quite motivating because it just gives me a timeline to work towards. And so the pressure kind of kicks in and you can get it done. I usually like to do things in advance, which is not very ADHD of me, maybe it's the autism. I think just taking time away and resting. I don't do a lot of resting, like taking intentional time to do something that is not creating and giving myself permission to do that and talking with people about it. Getting reassurance is also helpful for me!
“I don't do a lot of resting, like taking intentional time to do something that is not creating and giving myself permission to do that and talking with people about it. Getting reassurance is also helpful for me!”
Uhm, I guess I'll finish off. Do you have aspirations or like at this point do you have a place either as a creative or do you have like a timeline? Where you're like at this point, I'm gonna do this, and then this, and this. Or you’re just kind of like, well, we'll see what happens.
You're meeting me at a really interesting point because I've been talking with a few people about the poster making in its current form, like doing alternative movie posters and trying to post like every week or doing the reels. I think I need a bit of a break from it. Umm I'm still keen to do all the client work and work with film makers but I feel like I need to try something different and this year I would love to make another short film or actually, I'm really interested in video games and video game design. I would love to try making a video game of some sort this year as well. Like it's a completely different kind of project.
So those two things would be really great, like big projects. I don't think I'll ever give up poster making completely but I might scale it back this year. We'll see. I might just be in a bit of a slump at the moment. Maybe I'll come back out of it. This happened last year too, but.
Yeah. I was gonna say No, don't do it! They're too good!
I heard a few people say that. I don't want to but my brain…
How else are we going to see your dog?
Yeah. You could meet him if you like. I'll call him. I'll see if he comes out.
(Marcus walks out his office to hunt down Bruno the dog…)
Please God...
(And Re-enters! With Bruno!)
Boy, he looks nervous. Bruno! here, buddy. He's very sweet. — Hello buddy!
Very, very cute...
Anyway, sorry. Alright, one more question.
Last question, why? Why did you make an EP where monsters help you meditate? Why would someone do that?
I don't know why anyone would do that… dumb idea.
What? What is it like? Do you have, like a dartboard or like what?
I really love to create really niche things that no one cares about. I mean, I feel like my style is just like niche in general, but the Mindful Monsters idea came about because I've been doing mindful meditation every night before bed for the past year and every year I like to do something special for Halloween like a project and I was like, what can I do this year? I originally thought just like a collection of posters. I was like, oh, that's kind of boring. I did the zine, the previous one, which was like a monumental task, and I got all these artists like help to make it.
Yeah. Yeah, super cool, I read all of it.
Yeah, it's really cool, but I didn't want to do that again, so I was racking my brain and then I was actually visiting this art centre in the city here in Melbourne, and it was like a children, focused art centre and they have this advertisement for this audio experience where basically you would scan the QR code will take you to a website and you could put on this audio and it was basically like an experience that you could have at home, in your lounge room where transform you and take you on a guided tour through like a mystical land. And it was really cool. And I was like, oh my god. Like that would be so cool to do, like an audio experience. Yeah. So I thought maybe I'll do like a horror themed audio experience. And then when I got that, I was like. Who's going to do it? Like what? I don't know who would be interested in this. So I kind of parked it…and then I was listening to my mindfulness one night, like the meditation before bed. And I was like, how funny would it be if my Dracula was guiding you through this meditation? And then the two ideas just kind of came together. So I contacted my friend. He's a voice actor, Interested in voice acting. And I was like, I've got this crazy idea. Are you keen? So I wrote the script. Invited him over. We recorded in this room and added the sound effects and Vega wants that.
Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful. It's so well produced, too. It's really, really good.
Thank you!
But yeah. Yeah. Thanks for talking to me. I really appreciate the time.
All right. Thank you. And if you need any other questions answered, I’m happy to type them out!
Finally, an image of contentment for you?
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